MentoringNOW With Debbie Devereaux
ASHP President

On Sept. 6, Debbie Devereaux was elected ASHP President. She is also currently the drug utilization review (DUR) manager for Wyoming and is a former director of pharmacy at Mountain Crest Hospital in Fort Collins, Colo. Previously, Devereaux was the assistant director of pharmacy for 11 years at University Hospital in Denver.

I like being a pharmacist because I always have the opportunity and the expertise to help people. Every single day, whether its with my friends, my family or in my job I have the ability to help people.
_{Debbie Devereaux}

PNOW: Please tell us about DUR and your specific duties.

DD: I actually started the program in August 1992 subsequent to the OBRA '90 regulations that required each state to begin a drug utilization review program. The University of Wyoming School of Pharmacy has the contract and I administer that contract for the school. I spend about two days every week in Wyoming and the rest of the time I telecommute. It's a fairly flexible full-time position that allows me to have quite a bit of outside involvement. I manage a board which is comprised of four pharmacists, four physicians and a physician's assistant who come from various cities in Wyoming. We meet six times a year and review about 1500 profiles per year. There are 48,000 Medicaid recipients in the state of Wyoming and we review claims for medical services as well as pharmacy services for a certain segment of that population on a bimonthly basis. We do provider education, and education for pharmacy school students. There is a quarterly newsletter; and I have a lot of outside projects in conjunction with the Medicaid agency in Cheyenne.

PNOW: Ten years into your career you received an MBA. Can you talk a little bit about why you chose this particular degree and how it has helped your career?

DD: At the time I actually started the MBA, I was about six years into my career. I finished 10 years after I got out of pharmacy school. At that time, I was the assistant director at University Hospital in Denver and I felt like I needed an advanced degree for a couple of reasons. One, a lot of my job, of course, dealt with personnel issues. It was a department of about 80 people and I also felt that for some of the financial issues, I needed extra education. At the time in Denver there were not very many options for advanced degrees. The pharmacy school did not have a Doctor of Pharmacy degree available at that point and time. There was only a Masters of Public Health, Masters in Health Administration or an MBA so I chose the MBA because I felt like it was a broader degree that would give me more flexibility. I have found that to be true.

PNOW: Do you feel like it was a good move for you?

DD: Oh yes. That education has been very beneficial.

PNOW: When you started your career in 1976 as a staff pharmacist at the University Hospital in Denver, what was the professional climate like for a woman?

DD: In my pharmacy school class there were only 11 women out of 58 so we were used to being in the minority. The majority of pharmacists at that point in time at University Hospital were male including all of the administrative pharmacy personnel. But really there was no discrimination. In fact, I think some of the administrative pharmacists -- I would like to mention Allen Chaman specifically because he mentored me over my career -- were very willing to let you try many things. At the time, there was a lot of change. We were getting ready to implement unit dose, IV add mixtures, and clinical programs and they needed young enthusiastic workers. I have fond memories of that time and I feel like I was given a lot of opportunity based on my abilities, not on any gender bias whatsoever.

PNOW: What changes have you noticed in the pharmacy profession since you graduated from pharmacy school?

DD: For starters there are more women than there are men who graduate from pharmacy school classes. I think the profession is becoming at least equal if not predominantly women. I don't have strong feelings one way or the other about that being good or bad. I think that there are a lot of things that pharmacists are being called on to do now. There may be less of a business component and more of a people component, more clinical activities, more conversations with patients, and more of a personal kind of practice that women excel at. I think that there are many more opportunities in pharmacy now - not only for women but for all young or mid-career pharmacists. There are many more career paths for pharmacists now than there ever were before.

PNOW: Are pharmacy schools addressing that personal component of pharmacy in the curriculum?

DD: I think they have added courses that emphasize communications and problem-solving. I remember a study that I talked to students about a couple of years ago. They had done personality tests and determined that certain people who were more extroverted and less judgmental were better at counseling than other types of personalities. I'm not saying there are more women who are extroverted and less judgmental, but I think pharmacy schools know that they need more students who like to work with people and fewer students who tend to want to stay behind a counter or at a computer terminal and have minimal patient contact.

PNOW: Why did you choose pharmacy as a career?

DD: I had a role model I grew up with who was a female pharmacist. She worked part-time and she was exceptionally bright and was able to help people in a way that nurses couldn't. She loved being a pharmacist. I love science and I wanted to study something that was health related but not nursing. So that left pharmacy or medical school and, frankly, by the time I got to my fifth year of pharmacy school, I was tired of school and being a pharmacist sounded like a really good idea.

PNOW: You have two children. How did you balance motherhood with a high-profile career?

DD: First, I have an incredibly supportive spouse who is a great parent and who chipped in from the very beginning. I guess I never really thought about not working or giving it up for a few years because I feel like, even 15 or 20 years ago, the increase in knowledge was fairly exponential, and taking four or five years off did not seem like an option to me. You would lose so much that I wasn't sure you could ever jump back in and be effective again. So I needed to find ways to keep working yet raise my family. I always knew I wanted children and I was determined to work that out. I will also say, and this is not true of everybody, I am a very high-energy person. I don't require a lot of sleep and so I am sure I have extra hours in the day that other people do not have. But it was not easy. I don't think that you can have it all. But I think that young professionals who have a family can have a large piece of a lot of it.

PNOW: What kinds of specific things did you do to reduce stress when your children were younger?

DD: I had at home help. I had baby-sitters that came into our home when the children were very small -- from 6 months to 3 years -- because I liked that I could have more control that way. That's not to say that I didn't take my fair share of days off for ear infections, but I minimized it, I guess, because of the childcare arrangements that I had. I have also found over the years that the best stress reduction mode is a bathtub full of hot water.

PNOW: Were you working full time when your children were younger or did you ever go into a part-time position?

DD: After our daughter was born and our son was 3, I was able to job share with another woman for about three years. We both worked 30 hours a week. We each worked two10 hour days and then we worked a 10-hour day together.

PNOW: Was it challenging to make a creative solution work?

DD: We talked everyday. On the days that only one of us worked, we left copious notes. I actually have talked to some of the people that worked for us during that period of time since then, and they don't think we dropped the ball or left a lot of things undone so that's a good thing to hear down the road. But it takes work and it takes getting along with the person that you are job sharing with. The person that you work for also has to know that you are not going to miss a step and that things will be taken care of and the projects will be completed. I wouldn't say it was a day at the beach but it gave us two extra days off a week.

PNOW: Your husband is the president of a small system of banks. How did you both balance your family life with your careers?

DD: He never traveled in his job - at least since the children were born - he had a fairly favorable work schedule so he could be depended upon if I needed him to help and he was very hands-on. He is a very capable father and has been very involved with his children from the beginning. I think my schedule actually helped with that. If I had been home, I would have tended to want to control things more and he might not have had the opportunities to attend all those school conferences and back to school nights.

PNOW: As newly elected president of the ASHP, do you have any tips for how a pharmacist who is already struggling with professional and personal commitments can make the time for professional organizations?

DD: In all organizations there are smaller jobs to do and there are larger jobs to do. I don't think people need to be embarrassed about saying they can commit to just this piece of this assignment or this piece of that project. If everybody did an hour, nobody would have to do 100 hours. I think you can certainly take time off and say you are not going to be able to contribute anything this year because you are having children or you have a new promotion or whatever. But you can always attend at least a few meetings. You can stay involved with other people. There are a lot of things that can be done, networking wise, from the telephone. And everybody has continuing education needs so by going to the annual meetings, state annual meeting or your regional meetings you can stay involved that way.

PNOW: How is your involvement in the various pharmacy organizations influenced how you practiced in your career?

DD: I think it has made a huge difference in how I practice and how I perceive the practice of pharmacy. I think that you can get mired in your own little world and the specific job you have. When you get out there and talk to other people from your state and on a national level, you find that there are very similar concerns and there are very different concerns. Some people have a whole different focus than you do and it's so nice to have your view changed 45 degrees or 90 degrees or even 180 degrees. I think that the networking, the people that you meet in pharmacy organizations statewide and nationally, is just invaluable. The friends and contacts I have made over the last 20 years have made it incredibly rewarding. There's always somebody who has seen it, done it and can help you with it.

PNOW: What do you like best about being a pharmacist and about the profession?

DD: I like being a pharmacist because I always have the opportunity and the expertise to help people. Every single day, whether its with my friends, my family or in my job I have the ability to help people. I think that pharmacy gets voted up there with the first or second most respected profession every year because we are accessible. We are available. We do not hesitate to share information and I think that is incredibly important. I hope that is always what people think about our profession.